bob costas, there's much more we want to get to, including the latest news about a-rod, performance enhancing drugs in baseball and football. but we are out of time. we want to take to the web for a take two, which you can find

later on the web. david will be back next week with an exclusive with representative eric cantor, on whether the gop can find any areas to work together with the president. that's next sunday. if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." good sunday afternoon. i'm craig melvin. you're watching msnbc, the place for politics. ahead this week in washington. gun control. >> nobody is talking about somehow violating the second amendment. we're talking about some common-sense things. >> the obama white house goes on the offensive. where they are going with their plans for what to do.

plus -- >> is it going to pass. people are looking for excuses not to vote for it. >> pass the senate, pass the house? >> it will certainly pass the senate. >> democratic leader in the senate, harry reid, saying an immigration bill will pass his chamber, what will that mean for the millions here illegally remains to be seen. ♪ oh, yeah, the countdown to the big game in the big easy is on. live to new orleans to see how they are getting ready for super bowl xlvii. news in northern texas. police have arrested a 25-year-old man. and charged him with two counts of murder there. he shot and killed two men at a gun range just outside ft. worth yesterday. one of the dead, decorated iraq war veteran, chris kyle whether or not by all accounts may have been the most deadly sniper in

the history of the u.s. military. we're expecting to get a little more information on this story from police very soon. when that happens, we will, of course, bring you the very latest live. meanwhile, to alabama for the latest on that hostage standoff in its sixth straight day. law enforcement officials say this man, jimmy lee dykes, shot and killed a school bus driver and is holding a 5-year-old boy named ethan in an underground bunker. little ethan has some mild autism as well. gabe gutierrez joins us from midland city, alabama. gabe, we know authorities have been talking to dykes through that pvc pipe of some sort. do we know whether he's asking for anything? >> reporter: craig, we've been following this story for days. police are very tightlipped about what their communication with dykes involves. we don't know if he's making any demeans, but yesterday we did hear from the sheriff and saw some signs of how sensitive

these negotiations have become. the shefb thariff thavsnked the for taking care of our child. law enforcement authorities may believe that the suspect has access to television in the bunker. he has an electric heater, blankets and treating the child relatively well and the child so far was not physically harmed, but not many details on the nature of the negotiations. this has been going on for more than 118 hours, since tuesday afternoon, when police say that suspect, jimmy lee dykes boarded that school bus, demanded two children and shot and killed the bus driver and took off with 5-year-old ethan according to police. they have been in the bunker now again for 118 hours and people here in midland city really are praying that this ends peacefully. >> you were talking, and we were showing viewers at home animation of what that bunker looks like.

can you describe for us, a little bit, what that underground bunker resembles? what it looks like? >> there are different reports about exactly how that -- that bunker, the exact measurements of the bunker. first reports, 4 by 6 feet, some say 6 by 8. we do know from law enforcement sources it, appears dykes has been building this quite some time. well stocked with supplies. electric blanket, heater, and possibly a television. in terms of the exact size of the bunker, there is a pvc pipe attached to it we're trying to nail down details. >> we'll come back later in the next hour. thank you, sir. former president bill clinton among the dignitaries delivering remarks at the funeral of former new york city mayor ed koch. services will take place monday morning on new york's upper east side. koch died friday at the age of 88. president obama's defense

secretary nominee chuck hagel may have picked up key support. nebraska senator mike injuringeinjuringer -- will support hagel's nomination. and rick perceive says that the boy scouts should not bend to the wimz of popular culture. his week in minneapolis, minnesota. joining us is peter alex and forever the white house what can we expect to hear from the president on that trip? >> it's interesting. we may hear on this very topic in the next couple of hours. scheduled to do an interview before the super bowl with cbs news and will likely be questioned about the topic of gun violence in his efforts to push for new, strict restrictions in terms of gun laws. tomorrow, it's as important that

he is going as he is what he will say when he arrives in minneapolis. he is making his first trip on this topic to the state of minnesota, minneapolis, an area that is sadly familiar with mass killings. there was a shooting there in september, a state where nearly one in ten people there, 5.4 million, half million of them have firearms, hunting licenses. in addition to that, the president also getting help if you will from the side. new york city mayor michael bloomberg has founded a group that is putting out a new ad that will air today during the super bowl. take a look. ♪ >> the nra once supported background checks. >> we think it's reasonable to provide mandatory instant criminal background checks for every sale at every gun show. no loopholes, anywhere, for anyone.

>> america can do this for us. >> that was a clip of the nra head, wayne la pierre from 1999. but he today again reiterated his new position, opposing background checks, which could ultimately lead to new taxes and even the confiscition of guns. >> peter alexander, thank you. we'll come back to you later in the show. former vice president al gore saying president obama is better prepared for the battles ahead. the president has learned his lesson. >> i have learned a great deal from watching his first term, but i think you already see a

greater depth and sophistication in his approach. president obama has demonstrated an ability to reach across the aisle, to invite more cooperation, but tempering that with a new firmness. >> so how does he use that new approach? that new firmness? with me, lori montgomery. goo to see you. >> thank you for having me. >> on capitol hill, watching this process. the next deadline ahead for a budget deal. more realistic this congressional term, or expecting more of the same type of gridlock? >> you know, the president is showing more firmness, refusing to get sucked into these battles like deduring the first term, saying in is going badly for republicans, and if they want to shut down the government, let the cuts take place on march 1st, great. republicans starting to realize it's not looking good for them. so i think what we're looking at right now is the sequester,

automatic budget cuts do indeed take place on march 1st. neither party has enough incentive to stop them. but we get to the end of march, and there is a question of whether or not the republicans will shut down the government and it's looking a little less likely. >> speaking of the president's new approach in week, his nominee for defense secretary chuck hagel out there for a senate hearing. left him out on his own this is probably the first that we have seen from the administration, defending haggle. take a listen. >> pretty obvious the political knives were out for chuck hagel. what disappointed me is that they talked a lot about past quotes, but what about what a secretary of defense is confronting today. >> leon panetta, the man hagel is replacing today. he was out defending susan rice, but we didn't hear from the president. not a mid level staffer, low level. we didn't hear anything from the

wousd while chuck hagel was out there. why do you think that was? >> i think they were, in fact, a little embarrassed by this inexplicably bad performance. it was like the guy was on, i don't know, tranquilizers or something, sleeping pills failed to ease up in the morning. the guys who briefed him said he did great in practice, we don't i don't know this happened. as senators, sometimes we're more accustomed to asking questions than answering them, clearly that was the case with him. but the other reason you don't see the president coming out, this nomination is probably not in trouble. no democrats are opposing him. mike johanns, a republican from his state says he'll support him. roy blount says he's oppose him, but won't filibuster. so it's like, okay, he did pretty lousy, but doesn't look

like it will kill the nomination. the president doesn't need to come out and defend him. >> let's bring in ken vogel of politico. >> hey, greg. >> let's start with what everybody is talking about. let's put the picture back on the screen. this, of course, the picture of the president shooting skeet back in august at camp david. put this out yesterday morning. what do you make of the white house's strategy, ken, in putting out this picture? >> it's a little bit like the birth certificate, right, where republicans were raising conservatives, not many congressional republicans, conservatives more generally raising a stink about this, pushing back on the claim that he made in an interview with the new republic, he understand the g gun, tradition of guns, and cited evidence that he had done skeet shooting at camp david. a lots of people challenging this, and demanding that he produce evidence.

here we had the evidence, has not satisfied some that question his form, say he's shooting too low. >> he's not shooting skeet. >> the white house is engaged in day-to-day battles and refuse to let these things sort of -- refuse to let them take the stance that they are above them. they see what can happen. distracted for three plus years over the birth certificate. not that this rises to the level. we see an effort to push back and engage with critics. >> stand by, we'll come back to you later and get your super bowl picks. still ahead, the investigation into the most deadly u.s. sniper ever. we expect more from police when that happens. we'll bring that to you. a new york woman travels to turkey by herself. vanishes, turns up dead under

suspicious circumstances. and out in the senate with a bird's eye view with the fight for immigration reform. kay balancy hutchison will talk about whether this is the time that the rules really change. you're watching msnbc, the place for politics. (announcer) scottrade knows our clients trade and invest their own way. with scottrade's smart text, i can quickly understand my charts, and spend more time trading. their quick trade bar lets my account follow me online so i can react in real-time. plus, my local scottrade office is there to help. because they know i don't trade like everybody. i trade like me. i'm with scottrade. (announcer) scottrade. voted "best investment services company." living with moderate to semeans living with pain.is it could also mean living with joint damage. humira, adalimumab, can help treat more than just the pain.

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out in record numbers and because of that, we have a better chance now than any time since i've been president. >> a busy week on immigration reform. president obama's speech and bipartisan groups in the house and senate drafting their own plans. senate majority leader harry

reid seemed hopeful that progress was near. >> it's really easy to write prin principles, but to write legislation it much harder, and once you write it, you have to get it passed. things are looking good. for a number of reasons, it's the right thing to do, and republicans can no longer stop this. >> joining me now from dallas, kay bailey hutchison, former governor of texas, republican, and worked hard before leaving the senate earlier in year. >> craig, good to be with up. >> senate majority leader came out strongly in the president's hope that the gay and lesbian couples should have the same immigration rights as straight couples, take a listen. >> we have gay folks in this country who have children, they come from other place, they should be protected just like any other child.

>> how might including provisions for same-sex couples affect chances that a co comprehensive bill will pass? >> i don't think that will be the issue on the front burner at all. issues will have to be worked out. the bigger issues, craig, are when you start a legal process, is it after border security is affirmed? if so, who affirms it? or the president's plan which starts it immediately? that is the area i hear discussed the most, and i also think that comprehensive reform is a big chunk. you know, i'm sure i was dealing with the dream achieve act with jon kyle and dick durbin, marco rubio. that has an immediate affect, and i hope that can be something

that will go pretty quick. frr gay rights are part of the comprehensive immigration reform act, there is talk nah thaw senator leahy will introduce an amendment to whatever -- whatever is brought to the senate. if that's a part of the deal, does that tank it? >> well, i just think that is peripheral issue, because some states recognize gay marriage and others don't. national policy on that is a different subject that has to be discussed, maybe in conjunction with this, but i think they are going to be issues directly related to this that are certainly going to come first. >> marco rub yobo, at the centef the debate. but david vitter said i love and respect marco, i think he's just amazingly naive on this issue. what is your take? >> well, i think he's very

important. very important in this issue. he does have certainly credibility. but i think those of us who worked on comprehensive immigration effort know that comprehensive immigration reform is very, very difficult. people may agree on the dream act, the achieve act, young people, but they may not agree on border security or agricultural workers or areas of s.t.e.m. education that would give immediate green cards. i think in the end you will see more of a piecemeal effort than the comprehensive. >> really? >> although i think this is a good beginning. >> you think it will be step by step, incremental, not the whole kit 'n' kaboodle, what the white house wants to see? >> i do. i have been in those negotiations and meetings, and i think you find one group for a part of it, but then they fall out on something else, and,

therefore, the something else, and then the first group falls out. i have seen that, and i think in the end, you will have a good start, and i think this is a good start, but i think you are going to have much more incremental successes and i think we should start on those incremental successes. >> really quickly while i have you here, let's switch gears to the other hot topic. gun rights. a long-time supporter, a grade "a" from the nra while in office. you recently said that high capacity magazines are a real danger to our society. what else needs to happen? and politically at this particular juncture, what do you think can happen? >> well, i think that it is going to be very difficult to come to an agreement particularly between the house and the senate. the kinds of gun control efforts. i think we need to look at what

areas can be improved, like certainly knowing background checks before people can buy guns, and i think there is a general acceptance of that, even though i know there is just a recent disagreement that has coughed up with the nra, but i think background checks are a minimum. i think that we can talk about the magazines and how many rounds should be in a magazine. i think that's a worthy area of discussion. is it ten, is it 30, is it 20? i don't know the answer, but i think there is an answer there, and then you have to look at mental illness and look at the things young people are looking at with movies, violence, video games. you have to look at all of these areas, not gun control. >> we are out of time. 10 seconds, does the nra represent its members or does it represent the gun industry right now in your opinion? ten seconds. >> that's a hard question.

i can't answer correctly. i think there are a lot of strong members of the nra that are hunters, normal regular citizens who think we must have protection for our families and must have the ability to hunt and the second amendment must be adhered to, and i think they are members of the nra. are they the majority? i don't know. i don't know what the gun manufacturers have in this, but i think there are a lot of hunters and people who want to protect their families. >> kay bailey -- >> it's a great issue for sure. >> former senator who can still answer questions like a politician sometimes, appreciate it. thank you. coming up, positive news about the pakistani girl who inspired so many but was nearly killed by the taliban, and barney frank, not sad about getting passed over for the massachusetts senate seat. in fact, he's taken to the stage. we'll explain, you're watching msnbc. [ fishing rod casting line, marching band playing ] [ male announcer ] the rhythm of life.

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many politicians is may have 20 is 6 presidential hopes. they all have to focus on hometown races first and that's what new jersey governor chris christie about to do. tomorrow he'll kick off a campaign with a dinner reception. top ticket price? $50,000. you and a guest will get a photo with the governor as well. let's go to the political playground for more. in addition to the fancy re-election dinner tomorrow, he will make his first appearance on "late night with david letterman." must see tv with the equally outspoken governor and late night host. if you thought former massachusetts congressman barney frank was disappointed about not being picked as interim senator from massachusetts, think again. frank, yesterday he made a stage

appearance on "fiorello." barney frank playing a conservative senator. that's acting. singer kelly clarkson more worried about her wedding than the funny thing that happened to her at inauguration. bill clinton photo bombed her. she said she finds the look on his face and the fact that someone caught him pretty funny. up next, the latest on the murder of a former u.s. navy s.e.a.l. at a texas gun range. details about who he was and who allegedly killed him. also, the group mayors against illegal guns, running a super bowl ad this evening that features a much younger wayne la pierre and his comments, before a house hearing days after columbine. you're watching msnbc. the place for politics. the perg begins with back pain and a choice. take advil, and maybe have to take up to four in a day. or take aleve,

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developing story we've been following in texas. a former navy s.e.a.l. shot and killed at a gun range southwest of ft. worth. chris kyle, a man described as the most lethal sniper in u.s. history was killed, along with a close friend on saturday. the suspect has been identified as 25-year-old eddie ray rutha, a corporal in the marine corps himself. now in custody. charged with two counts of capital murder, we have learned from police there, the semi automatic handgun used to kill kyle and his friend was found at the suspect's home. he had come to the range with kyle and his friend. after the shootings, ralph drove to his sister's house and admitted what he had done, but gave no hint as to why he did it. kyle served four tours of duty in iraq and wrote the best-selling book called "american sniper." he also started a nonprofit to help injured and disabled

veterans and he appeared on the series "stars earn stripes." is he survived by his wife and two children. 15 people detained for questioning in the death of a new york city woman who went missing on vacation in turkey. serai sierra's body was found yesterday. it looks like at this point she died from a plow to the head. the state department is working with the turkish government to determine who killed the 33-year-old mother of two. 34 people, many of them high school students, treated for injuries this afternoon. their bus hit an overpass in boston last night. the students and their chaperones visiting harvard university and were on their way back to pennsylvania. and malala, the pakistani school girl who narrowly survived the attack of al qaeda

is up and talking. friday, she was nominated for a nobel peace prize. we, of course, are counting down to the super bowl. kickoff, three hours, three hours from now, new orleans super dome, things will get under way, the city conditions its comeback. the super bowl story this year is about what's going on outside the stadium, as well as inside. janet shamlian standing by. how is the city responding to the challenges of hosting a big game? >> reporter: they put 1,500 police officers in downtown new orleans oaf the past couple of days, and you couldn't have missed them. their presence was everywhere, not just from new orleans. they brought in law enforcement from all over the state. heavy homeland security presence here, just to get into the super boem, you are going through basically three security checks and like you said, the game is three hours away.

but why wait? the gates open. take a look, people streaming in, doing things like buying souvenirs, a lot of entertainment. jugglers. i just came from inside there. people down close to the field where they don't have seats but are allowed for the time being to take pictures, walk around. i asked people why are you here three hours early, well, our hotel was an hour away, and they wanted to enjoy the experience after paying so much money for those tickets. >> get the bang for your buck. >> reporter: yep. >> beyonce performing at halftime. there might be some sort of reunion in the works. can you tell me about that? >> reporter: i don't know. can you tell me more about that. i don't know. i haven't heard that. did they have dinner or -- the whole halftime thing under a lot of hush-hush, lock and key. so if you know, i would love to know. but at this point, keeping it all kind of under the hat. >> the rumor, destiny's child

may make a comeback. we'll see. >> i know kelly rowlands is here, and both of the other girls are here, so you may be on to something. i'll look into it for you. >> nbc's janet shamlian in new orleans, we'll get back to you. >> okay. super bowl viewers in the washington, d.c. area will be drawn into the national debate on gun violence. an ad calling for background checks on all gun sales will air in that market during the game break, sponsored by mayers against illegal guns, new york mayor michael bloomberg helped start that group. democratic congressman david seleni of rhode island, a founding group of the mayor's group. congressman, good to see you. >> good to see you. >> the ad will only air in the d.c. market. why there? >> i'm not sure why there. it's a really effective ad. it reminds people that nra supported universal background checks and reminds people of the impact of gun violence, particularly on children and says -- it -- mr. la pierre

saying in his own voice, closing the loopholes no, loopholes for anyone anywhere, and, of course, now the nra has changed their position and is opposing universal background checks. a very effective ad. being shown in the washington, d.c. area so members of congress will see it. >> a lot of the members probably aren't there watching the game. there could be a split in law enforcement apparently for this. dozens of sheriffs across the country are opposed to the president's plan, saying "their jurisdictions largely include rural areas and stand in sharp contrast to those of urban police chiefs who have historically supported tougher gun regulations." and president obama headed to minneapolis tomorrow. how can he deal with the rural versus urban difference? >> no one is suggesting that

people don't have the right for a firearm. but most people agree that criminal who's don't have the right to have a firearm are prevented from getting one, we ensure people who have serious mental illness don't have access to firearms, reassuring folks that nothing that the president is suggesting, nothing that congress is proposing will limit the right of people to possess a firearm. what we have to do is be sure that we're preventing criminals from having access to firearms, making sure that people who suffer from serious mental illness don't have access to firearms. >> the mental health aspect. massachusetts, for instance, since the federal database has existed, that state has committed one -- this was just to test the system. one background check. one mental health background check. if we can't get states to submit the information to the federal database, then what good will it do to create anything on the legislation? >> are you absolutely right. we have to do both things. we are absolutely right.

make sure states are required to comply with the background system. so it has currently and accurate information. and every purchase of a firearm requires a background check. to make sure those factors are checked. criminal background, mental health status. requires to us do both things, states have to put the correct information into the system and every single purchase of a firearm must be required to go through the system. we have to do both things. there will be more than one thing we are doing. fix the broken background check system and make sure everyone follows the procedure before they purchase a gun. >> congressman, thank you. >> my pleasure. thank you. enjoy the game. >> will do, for more on the national debate, let's turn to chris cofinas, former chief of stat for senator joe manchin, and robert treanor. good to see both of you.

>> happy sunday. >> happy sunday. >> chris, are you sitting a few feet away. a rare trick. your former boss, senator manchin, comes from a rural, gun-friegun friendly state. where do rural democrats stand on strength new england g strengthening gun laws in this country? >> it's a tough issue. they look at them from a cultural perspective, grown up with them, gone hunting, much more sensitive than urban democrats who don't have the same kind of experience. that being said, you know, the newtown massacre changed everything for everybody. >> did it? >> i think so. >> it seemed like it did, you know, a few days and a few weeks after, but now it seems perhaps. >> the question is, and this is where i think -- i think people will be disappointed, how far do we go, and i think there is some momentum, and i put that in quotation marks, toward criminal background checks, everyone

realizes it doesn't make sense, if you buy a gun one place, you have a criminal background check, and if you buy one another place, you don't. in terms of expanding that to magazines and assault weapons bans, it becomes much more complicated for not only rural democrats, but in particular for republicans. >> can president obama change minds on this? by that, will this be a situation where democrats and the white house in particular really going to have to take what they can get? or is the president going to be able to harness public opinion or shift public opinion to get his way? >> well, with all due respect, and i -- i greatly admire this president, i'm not sure it's his job and quite fwrankly he has the political capital to change minds. moms, dads, hunters, as well as other law-abiding citizens, this has to happen at the grassroots level. a people movement, where the process will change people's minds in washington, d.c. this is a multifaceted conversation.

not just about the assault weapons ban which is very important, but it's about the mental health piece. it's about the criminal piece, about respecting the fact that there are a lot of people out there, the vast majority are law-abiding citizens that own guns and part of the conversation we've not had, enforcing the current gun laws, i don't want to dismiss this, say it's all about that. but what i'm saying, it needs to be a multifaceted conversation that will happen at the local level. >> the nra's wayne la pierre appeared on fox news sunday. and he the moderator chris wallace got into it over background checks, take a listen. >> i wish it would happen. we're all for it, but it's not. >> you are for universal background checks? >> universal. that's what president obama is now putting forward, and let me talk about that. it's a fraud to call it universal. it's never going to be universal. the criminals aren't going to comply with it. >> what say you to that, chris?

>> okay. so the response i guess is to do nothing. here is a very important factoid, since the criminal background check process has been in place, 1.7 million people is the number that's out there, right, that have been stopped getting weapons either because they have criminal background or some other kind of issue, so the argument by wayne la pierre is don't do anything. now, put aside the fact that he's completely contradicting the early position. >> and given no explanation for the contradiction. >> this has to do more about gamesmanship. and i can be completely wrong about this, they are trying to hold fast on everything. stop everything from happening. that way, they minimize the momentum to go bigger in terms of piece of legislation, so they may end up losing on criminal background checks, but they end up winning on the other things, this is the game -- >> the capacity of the magazines. >> robert mark kelly, gabrielle giffords' husband, he appeared separately and he says most nra

members support background checks. take a listen. >> you know, 74% of nra members think it's a very reasonable thing to do to have a background check before buying a gun. >> is there room for middle ground on background checks? >> absolutely. you know, look, i think mr. kelly is absolutely right and that underscores my earlier point. the vast majority of nra members are law-abiding citizens, the vast majority are law-abiding citizens, having a universal background check is common sense. you have to have a background check to get a job, a financial background check to get a credit card. one would think to have a gun you should have a background check. it goes back to wayne la pierre's comments of a couple of years ago it makes common sense. >> you know, we talked about this ad that's going to run in the d.c. market tonight from the mayors against illegal guns. a commercial that's going to be running during the super bowl, a look at the commercial.

first of all, i don't fully understand why the ad is just going to run in d.c. the ads are very expensive. but michael bloomberg has a lot of money. but what role do you think ads like this are going to have? or are they going to have any role at all? can we change people's minds at this point? have lawmakers made up their minds, or are the heels dug in? >> i think you can change some minds. in terms of running an ad -- an ad like this, it's done for a particular reason, to influence, if you will, the beltway elite. all the staffers, all the members of congress, all of the interest groups to get the media elite and everybody chattering about it. that's part of the strategy. but in terms of influencing minds, i've always thought that it's going to be a question of where does that common sense compromise come from? and i think the -- the fact that it remains unknown is the families. the families that have suffered from, you know, this kind of gun violence, when -- you know, when

do they go out to the hill? go out and speak out? they will be a critical factor in the legislation. >> thank you to both of you. appreciate it. >> thank you. enjoy the game. coming up, a new conservative group with its eyes on a big prize. taking back the senate in 2014. what they are doing to make that dream a reality. that's coming up. yes she is, yes she is. [ bop ] [ male announcer ] could've had a v8. 100% vegetable juice, with three of your daily vegetable servings in every little bottle. [ cash register dings ] [ male announcer ] wow. a brave choice. okay, focus. think courage. think shaun white.

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new indications today that republicans are making an aggressive push to win seats in 2014 and they hope the white house in 2016. to that end, republicans in massachusetts this weekend were pushing for a romney -- not mitt romney, but pushing for a romney to enter that state's upcoming senate race this spring. signs of a comeback, perhaps? joining me to talk about all of this, lori mcdermott. republicans may have a chance here at regaining the senate, they think. today's "new york times" says the big gop donors are funding a new group called conservative victory project. it intends to weed out flawed

unelectable candidates. karl rogan's team is behind the movement. how is this going to work? >> well, that's a good question. i mean, it was supposed to work last time, right? i mean, republicans were -- it was virtually impossible for the democrats to hold the senate last time. and then you had todd akin pop up in missouri and say crazy things about rain. >> richard murdock in indiana. >> mitch mcconnell, the man who would be the senate majority leader if republicans could get their act together must be tearing his hair out about the lack of assistance he's getting from his friends in the house on the other side of the chamber. because the party -- you know, these guys can spend all the money they want, but there is still a strain of, you know, a lack of willingness to face reality, a fringiness to some of the candidates. >> a fringiness. >> that they have got to get a grip on. and i'm not sure how you do that exactly, especially with sarah palin looking like she wants to

spend some money on some of these cases. >> let's talk about sarah palin for a second here. you wrote about her super pack finishing the year. with almost $1.2 million in the bank, how do you think she spends that? >> i think she clearly needs to use it to maintain a platform. she lost a significant part of her platform when she and fox news parted ways, and she has shown a desire to continue to be a voice in american politics and in the republican party in particular. >> really? are people still listening to sarah palin, like large swaths of this country? >> i would say definitely not large swaths of this country. however, there definitely is a constituency in the republican base, i think probably some of the folks who lori was kind of hinting at or alluding to, to folks who fancy themselves sort of the fiscal conservative -- really the fiscal conservative stalwarts of the republican party. and those people really bristle at efforts by what they see as

the washington republican elite, folks like karl rove, efforts like what we see spelled out in "the new york times" today, to control them, to corral them to, steal them away from candidates they may like, towards candidates who they think the establishment deems to be more elective. i've heard some republicans talking about the potential backlash it to, where there would be nothing that would fire up tea party activists on the base more than thinking that karl rove is trying to big foot them in telling them who to elect in primaries and that may have the opposite effect of riling up strong sentiment on the conservative base and encouraging tea party candidates, potentially encouraging conservative donors to put in money to oppose what karl rove is trying to do. >> the fringiness. the fringies being upset by the establishment. really quick here, lori montgomery.

boston globe reporting there might be a romney that gets in this senate race. do you think that's realistic or silliness? >> you know, i can't imagine that the romneys -- >> your tone says it all. >> are up for another one of these. >> who do you have, ravens-49ers? >> i'm an eagles fan, so once they're not in contention, i stop paying attention. i got to go with the ravens, see ray lewis finish on top. >> lori? >> if playoff joe flacco shows up, i think the ravens win. if regular season joe flacco shows up, not so much. >> thanks to both of you. just over to hours from kickoff down in the big easy and also two hours from the biggest of the year in advertising as well. we'll give you a preview of the ads to watch for in between the plays. first, though, a teenage girl just back from her trip to washington to perform with president obama's inauguration gunned down in chicago. a senseless tragedy that puts another face on the epidemic of gun violence.

reverend al sharpton is going to join me next. e. a talking train. this ge locomotive can tell you exactly where it is, what it's carrying, while using less fuel. delivering whatever the world needs, when it needs it. ♪ after all, what's the point of talking if you don't have something important to say? ♪ starts with arthritis pain and a choice. take tylenol or take aleve, the #1 recommended pain reliever by orthopedic doctors. just two aleve can keep pain away all day. back to the news.

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good sunday afternoon to you. i'm craig melvin. you're watching msnbc, the place for politics. coming up, gun control on the agenda. >> small communities, rural communities, big cities. and there's some things that they know would make sense. that's what we've proposed. >> president obama's plans to push his gun control proposals this week. we're going to also talk to reverend al sharpton about whether president obama is going for enough. plus, mitch mcconnell backing a different kind of green initiative, one that you might not usually associate with the leader in the gop. and on this super bowl weekend, we will, of course, head to the big easy to see thousand game is stacking up. we might even get to some productions as well. we'll get to all those stories. first, the developing story in texas where police have arrested a 25-year-old man, they've charged him with two counts of murder for shooting and killing two men with a semiautomatic

pistol at a gun range just outside fort worth saturday. within of those two men, decorated iraq war vet, chris kyle, who by all accounts may have been the most deadly sniper in the history of the u.s. military, logging some 160 kills while he was in iraq. police say the shooting -- police say after the shooting, he drove to his sister's man when he confessed to killing both men. sheriff's officials say at this point they do not have a motive, but the suspect is unemployed and may have been suffering from a form of mental illness. he's now being held on a $3 million bond. we are expecting to get more from police soon. when that does happen, we will pass on any new information when we get it. we're also keeping a close watch on the hostage situation in alabama that's been going on since tuesday now. police say a vietnam vet killed a school bus driver and has been holding a 5-year-old boy named ethan hostage inside an underground bunker. nbc's gabe gutierrez is in midland city, alabama, with the

latest developments. we know that police have been communicating with the suspect. have we heard any more about a possible motive behind all of this? >> well, craig, the short answer to that is no. this thing has been going on for more than 118 hours and police are still very reluctant to discuss my type of motive. we can tell you that the suspect is 65-year-old jimmy lee dykes. he has had a few brushes with the law, including one in december where he was supposed to appear in court last wednesday for a scheduled court appearance. but the day before, in that court appearance he was facing a misdemeanor charge of menacing a neighbor. neighbors around here describe him as a loner with a deep distrust in the government. but police won't confirm whether that had any role to play in the motive. on tuesday, that's when the

standoff began. police say dykes ordered that school bus and demanded two children. when the bus driver refuse, police say dykes took one of those children ethan, a 5-year-old boy with autism, and they've been holed up in that bunker ever since. today is the funeral -- actually, right now is the funeral for that bus driver. >> gabe, thanks to you. the new jersey democratic senator robert menendez and harry reid. >> he'll do a wonderful job and he's an integral part of what we do, so i have the utmost confidence in him. >> president clinton will deliver remarks at the funeral

of ed cox. services will take place on the upper east side. he was 88. we will have much more on the mayor coming up in a few minutes as well. texas governor rick perry doesn't want the boy scouts to reverse its policy on lgbt members and leaders. perry, a former eagle scout himself, says the organization should not bend to the whims of popular culture. the problems between the nra and white house continue today with wayne lapierre slamming the president. >> well, the same thing during the campaign when he said i will not take away your rifles, shotgun, handgun. they leafletted the country with fliers like this, obama is not going to take your gun, obama will protect gun rights. and now he's trying to take away all three. >> the white house disputes that assertion, and it comes just as the president is about to head to minnesota to talk gun control tomorrow. joining me now with more on all of this, nbc news white house

correspondent peter alexander. first of all, why minnesota? >> it's a good question. the white house has made it very clear this, of course, is the first trip for the president. they say there will be others. vice president biden has been to virginia already, pushing their anti-gun violence efforts. minnesota, minneapolis specifically has some relevance here. it was only last september where a gunman killed six people including himself in a workplace shooting. it is a state that has a longtime culture of gun ownership. nearly one in ten minnesotans has a license to hunt with a firearm in that state. so it's a state that's really central to this conversation as the president has acknowledged there's this divide between rural and urban america's view of the issue of guns. the president is getting some support from the outside. the new york city mayor michael bloomberg has founded a gun control group with a new ad

specifically in the washington, d.c. market. so many of the politicians are here. you know it will become part of the conversation as well. here's a quick look. >> the nra once supported background checks. >> we think it's reasonable to provide mandatory instant criminal background checks for every sale at every gun show. no loopholes anywhere for anyone. >> america can do this. for us. >> the point of that is that wayne lapierre, the nra head, now is against universal background checks. specifically he said this morning that they could lead to a universal registry of gun owners, something he says the nra opposes. >> peter alexander from 1600 pennsylvania for us. thank you, sir. a reward for information in the sleiaying of a chicago

teenager is at $40,000. there was a march saturday in memory of hadiya pendleton. the 15-year-old was shot and killed tuesday in a park with her friends. i want to bring in reverend al sharpton, host of msnbc's "politics nation." also president of the national action network as well. let's talk about hadiya first. recently got back from washington. she just performed at president obama's inauguration. for folks who don't know the story, who aren't familiar with this little girl, what can you tell us? >> 15 years old, honor student. as you said, performed at the president's inaugural festivities. went home, was on her way in a month or so to paris. and was killed. apparently standing under a petition that was, you know, there for weather. and someone shot her. there with all kinds of theories of whether it was mistaken for gang warfare. she clearly had no involvement

in any violence in her life, no gang warfare. in fact, had done a commercial against gang warfare. and had a mother on politics nation. >> i want to play that for our viewers. take a listen. >> her friend who was there with her, called me to let me know what was going on. and i left immediately. the first cab i could come across to get to my baby. never in a million years did i ever dream i'd be getting a call with my baby being shot. >> that's heart crushing. and here's the thing, reverend al. this is shocking to a lot of folks, but chicago has been dealing with this for some time. this is the 42nd death so far this year in the windy city. what's happening in chicago? >> well, when you look at over 500 deaths last year, 42 already

this year, and we're only in the third day of february, there is a real sense of a crisis in chicago. and people talk about strict gun laws in chicago. but 20% of the guns found in chicago come from one gun shop right outside of chicago. so unless there's national legislation, as the president has proposed and the nra keeps attacking, it doesn't matter if a city has laws, you don't build walls around cities. we need national legislation to deal with how we deal with firearms in this country, from background checks all the way to the automatic weapons, semiautomatic weapons, and these magazines. >> at this point, though, do you think assault weapons ban even stands a chance anymore? >> i think the question is do we stand a chance, when 15-year-old honor students can be killed. the question is not whether the legislation can pass numbers.

the question is whether society can survive without the legislation, when we can't protect little girls two weeks away from the president's inauguration. >> i want to talk to you about your old friend ed koch. what do you remember most about the mayor? >> we fought for many years. >> i know. >> the first time i was arrested. >> the first time. >> on civil rights demonstrations. he accommodated that. he said he made me famous. but he was a guy who was a total ultimate new yorker. he had the swagger. he would say what he meant, meant what he said. we didn't agree a lot. later in life, we became allies of harvard university and he started a program giving second chance to nonviolent drug off d offenders to give them a way of coming back in society and becoming constructive. and i ended up working with him.

i became the third part of the trio. i got to work him. when i was put in jail for leading protests in puerto rico about navy bombers, he actually went to the puerto rican day parade and led the parade. >> how about it? >> so we prove that you disagree without being disagreeable. but i never saw him as a hypocrite or a phony. he would tell you yes if he agreed, no, if he didn't and let the consequences fall where they may, so i respected him even though i disagreed with him more than i agreed with him. i never lost my respect for him. >> reverend al, always good to see you. >> good to see you. >> who do you have tonight? >> i'm rooting for beyonce. >> you and a lot of other people as well. don't forget, you can catch reverend al every weekday night on "politics nation" right here on msnbc, 6:00 eastern. rooting for beyonce. a new poll shows americans identifying themselves as liberal has taken a small jump.

does that mean that the time is now for the president to go even further with his agenda? we're going to talk about that. and oh yeah, by the way, it is super bowl sunday. big time for ads. we're going to give you a sneak peek of some of the ones that -- that's a great ad, by the way. we're going to talk about the ads. we'll also talk about this new strategy, releasing the ads so far in advance as well. this is msnbc, the place for politics, sports. we'll be right back. ♪ [ construction sounds ] ♪ [ watch ticking ] [ engine revs ] come in. ♪ got the coffee. that was fast. we're outta here. ♪ [ engine revs ] ♪ [ male announcer ] the rhythm of life.

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♪ now coca-cola ad released before the big game already controversial.

an arab-american group is calling it racist for the portrayal of the man with the camel there. millions have already watched it online, though. more than a hundred million viewers will watch it tonight during the super bowl with each 30-second spot costing about $4 million this year. many companies have already released their ads to maximize the buzz. with me now, james cooper, executive editor. these advertisers release their commercials before the game. why do that? >> you know, thinking of a super bowl ad as an ad is like thinking of the super bowl as a football game. it's not. a super bowl ad is a true event. so you want to maximize the exposure before, during the game, and then the buzz afterwards. there's three main areas. one is there's a whole group of media doing nothing but writing super bowl ads. you'll get a billion impressions ahead of time. you can get tens of millions online. and another hundred million at

the game. and you add all that up collectively. >> it's arguably worth more than the $4 million you paid for the 30-second spot. >> trying to make that $4 million work for one ad is a lot of promising. >> we showed one ad for that coke ad. volkswagen also has an ad out that's raising eyebrows. take a look. >> wicked coffee, mr. jim. julia. turn the frown the other way around. >> hey, dave. you're from minnesota, right? >> yes, the land of 10,000 lakes. the gopher state. >> so in conclusion, things are pretty dismal. >> you know what this room needs? a smile. >> all right, here's the easy thing. we're laughing because we kind of have this sense of humor. but this is the kind of ad that could potentially be a problem for volkswagen, no? >> i don't think so. it's already gotten a ton of

viewership on youtube. you get so much viewership prior to the game. this has been viewed a lot and i think it's going to be a home run for volkswagen, although it did have that quick controversy about it being real estaacist. but the jamaican tourist board said they were cool with it. >> they're probably cool with a lot of things. >> as they should be. >> i want to show you one of my favorite ads this year. this is a budweiser ad. this has been up and running online as well. take a look. ♪ i took my love i took it down climbed a mountain and i turned around well i've been afraid of changing 'cause i've built my life around you ♪ >> that's not the best part of the ad, but that's a really good ad, i thought.

budweiser asking social media followers to help name that foal. what do you think of that ad? >> i think it's amazing. you have to understand, everybody wants their ads to be talked about. the watercooler monday morning. well, twitter and facebook are the new watercooler. so they're guaranteeing that we get to name this horse, then they get publicity when they announce it. we get to learn what the horse's name is. it's brilliant. and oftentimes, beer ads especially, usually it's like scantily clad women playing beach volleyball. >> yeah, you hate that stuff. but this is very much out of the box. >> it was good to see that one. >> cbs carrying the super bowl this year. they wanted soda stream to revise their ad. i want to play the ad and talking about the controversy on the backside. >> with sodastream, we could have saved 500 million bottles on game day alone.

>> that's the ad that's not going to be playing during the super bowl. what happened? >> i just think that they were a little aggressive. going after gigantic industry, the soda and bottling industry. >> it's kind of funny. >> it's totally funny. i don't see what the problem is with that ad, but it got some people excited and they had to change it. >> it's very clear what the problem is. it's very clear that coca-cola and pepsi cola and all of their entities and all of the networks are talk about hundreds of millions of dollars in buying clout versus sodastream buying one ad. >> and they put ka bosh on it as a result. >> what's your favorite so far? >> i'm with you on the budweiser clydesdale. >> what's your least favorite? >> i don't think we've seen it yet. i think we're going to see that today. >> someone said that godaddy ad -- >> it's going to have people talking for weeks. it is really gross. >> gross. that's the word. go daddy usually puts an ad out

every year that has folks talking. >> they definitely try to push the envelope and they've gone gonza with this one. it's pretty out there. >> $4 million for a 30-second spot. >> and you only get two million for 30 seconds on this show. doesn't seem fair. >> yeah. that's why we have to run so many commercials. thanks to both of you, do appreciate your time and your insight. >> thanks. mitch mcconnell taking a stand that may surprise some of his supporters. we're going to tell you what it is. also, it's a million times cuter than the super bowl. that's right. there they are. it's the puppy bowl. we love the puppy bowl here. in fact, we contemplated just doing this the next 30 minutes, sitting here looking at these pup pis. we're not going to do that. we will preview it, though, ahead, right here on msnbc. ha ha ha! no no no! not today! ha ha ha!

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hemp man go up in smoke. why the change of heart, you ask? money. after talking to rand paul and being assured it will not lead to more illegal drug use, mcconnell says he sees hemp production as positive for kentucky's economy. to the political playground we go for more. by now we're all used to hearing vice president joe biden say some pretty interesting things. his latest may have the president shaking his head, but will make germans quite happy. he said, "i have traveled over 640,000 miles since i've been vice president and most of the time the president sends me to places he doesn't want to go, so i've spent an awful lot of time with mccain and others in afghanistan, so it's good to be here in germany. it may be the snavenators w have the most to lose.

they may have to cough up the crabca crabcakes, burnt cookies, odds makers are favoring the 49ers. if the super bowl is not your thing, well, there's that other big bowl today. there it is. it's the puppy bowl. oodles of cuteness today. no need to change the channel just yet. chances are you'll be able to see this a lot. the puppy bowl is going to be on repeat on the animal planet for the rest of the day. you can set your dvrs. look at that, look at that. i tried to talk slowly so you could see more. president obama criticized by some in his first term for not doing enough specifically for african-americans in this country. will that change in his second term? we're going to talk about that and look at that. also coming up next, we'll take you to new orleans, to the big easy, site of the super bowl. we are just -- oh, just over two hours now from kickoff. you are watching msnbc, the place for politics and pregame

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an update now on the developing story in texas. a 25-year-old u.s. marine is facing double murder charges. he's akuccused of killing chris kyle and another man. kyle is a former navy seal, hailed by combat experts as perhaps the most lethal sniper in the history of the u.s. military. police say eddie ray routh shot and killed him with a handgun. investigators say at this point there's no known motive, ralph being held on a $3 million bond right now. craig melvin -- here's a quick

look at some of the other top stories making news this afternoon. at least 15 people have been detained for questioning in the death of a new york city woman who went missing on vacation in turkey. sierra's body was found in istanbul yesterday. turkish authorities say at this point it looks like she died from a blow to the head. the state department is working with the turkish government to figure out who killed the 33-year-old mother of two. 34 people, many of them high school students, are all being treated for injuries this afternoon. their bus hit an overpass in boston last night. the students and their chaperons had been visiting harvard university and were on their way back to pennsylvania when it happened. and a bizarre story out of london today. police there tasered a knife-wielding man outside buckingham palace this morning. it happened in front of a large group of tourists during the changing of the guard ceremony there. that man is now in police custody. two hours and counting before the big game kicks off at the superdome. more than a hundred million people are expected to watch the

game on television. it is also for the first time being streamed free online starting at 6:00. nbc's janet shamlian is joining us again from the big easy. the saints aren't marching into the superdome, but it's still one big party in new orleans. how are they getting geared up for the big game? >> reporter: it is a big party. i was inside the superdome and there are almost as many saints jerseys in there today as 49er and ravens. so a lot of folks in new orleans seem to have gotten their hands on the elusive tickets and showing their saints spirit. in terms of super bowls, this is a tenth one new orleans has hosted, so they're no stranger to putting on a big party. they're now tied with miami for the most number of super bowls the city has hosted. but they have cleaned up the city enormously. they've repaved a lot of the roads, especially near the airport. they've added a trolley line. there's been a lot of general fixing up and polishing and

putting their best face forward. as you know, this is the first super bowl since hurricane katrina. they're on a world stage tonight. they want it to look their best and they do. >> we're talking about the super bowl, and here's the thing. mardi gras kicks off down there in the big easy? just a few days as well. that city is not going to stop for weeks. >> reporter: yeah, let's add a little bit of confusion with what we've got going with the super bowl. the culmination of mardi gras is february 12th. a number of the big balls happened this weekend. so they are really juggling a lot right now. but it looks like they're capable of doing it. it's gone pretty smoothly. and the weather is perfect. sorry to rub that in because i know it's cold in new york. but it's about 68, 69 degrees. >> oh, that's great. thank you very much. it's been sub-zero in new york for weeks now. janet shamlian in new orleans. thank you, enjoy the big game. february, of course, marks

the start of black history month. this year the 50th anniversary of the civil rights movement. it is also the year that the country's first black president was sworn into president for a second term. angela rod, director of impact strat justice and former executive director of the black caucus. it's good to see you. >> good to see you, too, craig. >> the president caught some flak about his first term, some lawmakers saying he did not do enough specifically for people that look like you and me. ma maxine waters, i want to talk about her. >> the congressional black caucus blasts the president, too. we're supportive of the president, but we getting tired, y'all. we want to give him every opportunity, but our people are hurting. >> he was talking specifically about the unemployment rate in the black community, which is and has always been a bit higher than that in the white

community. how is the president faring right now specifically with black voters? >> well, with this past election, we saw over 90% of african-americans supporting the president. i think that our community certainly believes that the president -- it was better than the alternative at that time. to the congressman's point that you just played, african-american unemployment is still double the national average, and we have to do some things that are very targeted to ensure that our communities move forward. >> things like what? >> i think that there are job programs. i think with the president's proposal of the american jobs act last congress, we certainly could stand to see that move this congress. we have, you know, a very divided house with republicans who are in the far right wing of issues and totally out of touch with what the american people want as a whole. we definitely want to see some movement there. i hope to see the president reintroduce -- re-propose the act again before congress. >> tomorrow, of course, rosa

parks' birthday. she would have turned 100. i think we've all probably seen this. we want to show our viewers again. the iconic photo of president obama sitting in her seat. how do you think that the next generation is going to remember civil rights icons like rosa parks going forward? >> i think part of the onus is upon us to tell history with facts that are reflective of these great legacies, of these heroes. i know there's an article recently put out that talks about the truth of -- about rosa parks and the fact that there was this story painted out her that puts her in the light of someone very meek and mild. and questions rising about why that existed when she may have been a lot more feisty. i think the fact of the matter is people, especially during that time, expect women to be more meek and mild. more kindergarten teacher style than revolutionary.

>> always good to see you. thank you. >> likewise. many wonder what strides president obama will continue to make for both undocumented immigrants and same-sex marriage. i want to bring in the brain trust panel. good to see all of you. >> good to be here. >> i'm going to start with you, aisha, how comprehensive will immigration reform be if same-sex couples are left out of it? >> well, if you leave anybody out of any measure, clearly it's not comprehensive. something's missing. but we talk about -- we talk about same-sex couples as it relates to immigration. there are about 40,000 by nashville couples, one of the partners cannot seek citizenship in the united states, cannot get permanent residency. even if the couple has a legal relationship. what we often fail to talk about is that there are almost a

million estimated to be people who are living in this country who can undocumented who happen to be gay gay or transgender. the conversation should not be posed as this dichotomy of, well, a couple of gay couples are trying to take forward. if we move any immigration reform forward, that's going to do a whole lot. >> robert costa, this is part of the immigration package, does the package happen? >> it's a great question, craig. the president's going to have to make a key political decision on immigration. he's dealing with a republican house and a democratic senate that has republican senators such as marco rubio who are willing to work to broker a compromise. if the president really pushes too hard, republicans may walk away from the table and any chance of immigration reform may just disappear. the president's going to have to find a way to find compromise. that's the only way immigration reform gets through congress. >> do you think that we will see more of a left leaning agenda

from the president in his second term? >> well, i think we will simply because a decision has probably been mading be inmade, but thos the right throughout his first term he spent time trying to cater to their feelings. they're not going to back anything that has the name barack obama on it. so when it comes to, for instance, immigration rights, he can talk about extending it to the gay community because he's pressing two bigot buttons, hatred against immigrants and their fury against gays. >> isn't that a little unfair? look at what senator rubio has done, he's urged conservatives to try to come to the table. wants to make a deal. >> pardon the interruption, but i think what i would probably suggest is that when it came time to introduce what i would think would be a common sense part of immigration, to include people from the lgbt community,

rubio talked about how obama was going too far. it is absurd that we even have this kind of an issue. >> it's not just rubio who said it. at this point, senator john mccain said the same thing. there have been a number of republicans who have said that if that is part of any sort of comprehensive immigration bill, that bill probably won't see the light of day. stand by. quick break. we got to pay a lot of bills here. when we come back, new indications that the country is becoming more liberal. what will that mean for president obama's agenda in his second term? we're just getting started here. this is msnbc. the brain trust is with us. don't go anywhere. come right back. [ lisa ] my name's lisa, and chantix helped me quit. i honestly loved smoking, and i honestly didn't think i would ever quit. [ male announcer ] along with support, chantix is proven to help people quit smoking. it reduces the urge to smoke. it put me at ease that you could smoke on the first week. [ male announcer ] some people had changes in behavior, thinking or mood, hostility, agitation,

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the times, they are changing apparently. new gallup analysis shows america is becoming slightly more liberal and slightly less conservative than it was in 2011. does that americans are ready

for a more liberal white house agenda? i want to bring in a brain trust here. aisha, based on the latest gallup analysis showing americans are slightly more liberal, do we think this this country has had some sort of tech on t techtonic shift or is it more incremental than that? >> i think it's more incremental than that, but i think what we're really seeing is a demographic shift. we're realizing that the values and principles of millennials, people of color are actually resonating now in our political possess in a way that they didn't before. i think that's why we're seeing this move towards liberal ideas and values. >> this is something that's near and dear to you specifically as well. the president has seemed to go from a candidate who was a little uncomfortable with same-sex civil unions. he went from that to he supports same-sex marriage.

he mentioned gay rights in his inaugural address, first president ever to do that. now we're talking about that being a part of comprehensive immigration reform. does president obama -- does he very much want to be considered the gay president? does he want that to be a major part of his legacy? >> i think he wants his legacy to be one where he worked and fought for all people who were not being treated leaguefully this country. this is a final frontier, when you think about who is being discriminated against en masse, it's going to be lgbt people. more than half the states in this country, i can get fired from my job because i'm gay. my marriage is not treated equally. wha what i think he wants his legacy to be is the opportunity to be the same as neighbors. be it around immigration quality or around lgbt equality, that's what his legacy is going to be. >> according to this analysis, moderates have pretty much stayed the same. will the president have the

hardest time convincing them of his second-term agenda? >> well, there are only about five left. this country has become divided poll after poll after poll shows that. here you have barack obama, who would fancy himself the inclusive president. an opposition that has really made him turn out to be the divisive president. i think we this real polarization in the united states. i really question the staying power of this trend toward liberalism right now. i think the voters are very, very quickle and i think what happened is the conservative clause was represented in a republican party that basically put forth a bunch of bozos this time, to put it bluntly. i think if they come up with a palatable candidate, i think you'll see a switch. >> we just got some sound here. president obama sat down before the super bowl, the traditional pre-super bowl interview. we'll talk about it on the other side. but this is the president speaking specifically -- this goes to what you were talking about. he was talking about the situation with the boy scouts. take a listen to what the president said and then we'll talk about it, guys.

here he is. >> next week, the board of the boy scouts of america is going to vote on whether to end their national ban on gays and scouting. should scouting be open to gays? >> yes. >> why so? >> well, because i think that my attitude is that gays and lesbians should have access and opportunity the same way everybody else does. in every institution and walk of life. >> there you have it. >> it's that simple. it's that simple. everybody should have the same access, the same opportunities, be treated equally. and that's exactly what the president is talking about. and i think that most americans would agree. so to be able to create institutions in this day and age that say we don't want a certain type of person to be a member, it's just plain flat-out discrimination and i don't think we should accept that in the united states and neither does he. >> did the president say anything that surprised you at all, robert? >> the one hesitation i have about calling president obama the champion of gay rights is

that if you look at his record politically speak, it took him until 2012 to have his evolution on gay marriage. perhaps in the second term he's making a lot of positions and statements that show him to be a champion of gay rights but it took him a long time to get to this place. so i don't think it's appropriate to immediately say he's the leader. there are a lot of leaders in the gay rights movement. i don't think president obama has a spotless record on that. >> are you implying, robert costa, that the president may have seen a political opportunity with that particular community? is that the implications? >> i'm not a psychologist, i can't read the president's mind, but i know politically speaking it took him until 2012 late into his first term to come to this -- >> the record speaks for itself. i don't want to say that the president has been the most friendly -- >> let me say briefly, i appreciate your point and i appreciate, for instance, the fact that the president mentioned this -- >> has done more than any other president, actually.

>> my whole point is that it took him a while to get to this position, and even people in the gay rights community have raised questions about why it took him so many years. >> first of all, he's inherently a leader because he's president of the united states, point number one. number two, it's important to note that i had the suspicion that that entire interview we were just watching was lip-synched. >> oh, bob. thanks for it bringing it back there. stay right there, guys. quick break. when we come back, the brain trust will tell us what tomorrow's paper will be saying about tomorrow night's game. and yes, perhaps the halftime show as well. that's a nice dress. [ male announcer ] where do you turn for legal matters?

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the brain trust is back. there's a big game that's happening here in about an hour and a half. bob, let's start with you, robert costa. what's your headline coming out of the super bowl? >> with all due respect to scott

pelley, i think people are only paying attention to the game, the ads, and beyonce's voice. so here's my headline. ravens win ring, beyonce really sings. >> look at that, and poet and you didn't etven know it. mr. franken, how about that? >> i'm going to refer to the picture that we saw this week that caused such controversy. actually, obama was not practicing skepractice ing skeet shooting, he was practicing his state of the union message. >> that's tough. >> the headline tomorrow will be a reference to that and that's that the obama gun background check reveals that he was born in the united states. >> bob, really quickly here, do you think that the background check component of the proposal is probably going to be the only substantive thing that we get legislatively? >> if that. the national rifle association is a formidable organization and it's going to be interesting to

see if anything passes unencumbered by loopholes. >> robert, what do you think in terms of government legislation? do you think background checks is probably going to be it? >> it's a fascinating question, craig. you look at immigration and gun control, republicans are still reeling from the 2012 presidential election. i think they're more open now to these issues and these positions than they have been in the past. i think it's a fair question to say maybe there's a possibility of both of these things happening. more background checks and immigration reform. >> all right, let's get back to the light stuff here really quickly. your headline. >> yes, so i totally agree that most of us are actually watching the super bowl to watch beyonce. and so i think that the headline is going to be beyonce bowl crushes lip-gate scandal. >> i guess we do know for sure that she will be singing tonight, if nothing else. >> she will be singing. >> and lots of rumors that destiny's child will be back onstage with her as well. >> apparently they have a new

album coming out. >> i miss destiny's child. bring them back. >> do you really, robert costa? give me one destiny's child song. >> i can't right off the top of my head. i can't even remember the other two's names. >> shoutout to michelle and kelly. >> they will be joined in the halftime show by jim and john harbaugh. >> and on that, we'll leave it -- >> craig, can you name one song off the top of your head? >> "bills, bills, bills." that's my personal theme. "say my name." that's another good one. >> team picks, robert costa. >> ravens. go ravens. >> mr. franken? >> i'm going to go with san francisco, just to be opposite robert. >> it's not a right-left question, bob. >> it's always a right-left

question. >> i'm going ravens, too. >> i'll go 49ers. as always, thanks to you. and thanks to you as well that. is our show for this super bowl sunday. join us next weekend here on msnbc for more. 2:00 eastern, i'll be here. then 3:00 sunday for the latest political news and analysis as well. keep it here for the latest news updates throughout the night and enswr enjoy the game as well. living with moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis means living with pain. it could also mean living with joint damage. humira, adalimumab, can help treat more than just the pain. for many adults, humira is clinically proven to help relieve pain and stop further joint damage. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal events, such as infections, lymphoma, or other types of cancer, have happened. blood, liver and nervous system problems,

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